Here’s a quick look at this episode, Intro to the Enneagram
- What is the Enneagram
- What numbers are Morgan and Gwen
- Personality Test such as Myers Briggs, DISC and Strengths Finder
- Description of the Number Types
- The three types of Numbers (head, gut, heart)
- Integration and Disintegration
- A few words about the Test
Free Ennegaram tests
- Truity Enneagram Test
- Eclectic Energies Enneagram Test 🌟 this is the one I took
- Enneagram Academy Test
- Enneagram Institute
- DISC Test
- Strength’s Finder
- The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective
- The Wisdom of the Enneagram
Well, hello there. Welcome back to the redefining bold podcast. You're listening to episode number 10.
And I'm your host Gwen Whitfield from theboldabode.com, where I guide warm-hearted women in their
quest for a more organized, cleaner home and a more productive and vibrant life. Okay. So today I have
a very special episode and a very special guest that I would like to welcome. His name is Morgan
Whitfield and yes, that's right. This is my husband. I brought him on the podcast today because I want to
pick his brain about the Enneagram. Now, if you've never heard of the Enneagram, it's basically just
another personality test, right?
Something like that. Yes. It's a personality test. That's been around for a long time.
Oh really? I didn't realize that
in the middle ages, but it's come back since father Richard Rohr wrote a book about the Enneagram in
the late 1970s.
Okay. So w what is that a priest?
Yeah, he's a Franciscan priest, a Franciscan brother who has, who wrote a book about all the nine types
of the Enneagram. So it's become very popular since, since his book. Yeah,
Yeah, I've noticed that it really has become way popular. We just found out about it. What about a year
Yeah, about a year.
About a year ago, but as soon as I found out about it, I saw I started seeing it everywhere. And I have to
tell you that I've taken the Myers Briggs, taken the strengths finder. What are some other tests that are
out there that we've taken?
Uh, there's the disc test? The D I S C, right.
I don't think I've done that one though. But when I took the Enneagram test and read about my type, it
was the most accurate description of my personality that I have ever read. And it's really helped me to
understand myself better, which is really amazing given the type that I am too, which can be a little bit
confusing because it's called the crown of the Enneagram.
You're a nine.
I am a nine, There. You have it. I know I've alluded to the Enneagram in a past podcast. So if you were
listening, I told you I was going to wait and tell you what I am, but I am a nine and nine is the, the
peacemaker, right? So yeah. So Morgan is a,
I'm a one and the one is are perfectionists and reformers,
So we're the ones who try, who have lists and try to make things perfect.
And they always see, they see the everything and ways they can make it better.
Right. So you're always... Everything you encounter, you're you, you think about and you brainstorm
ways that you can make it. improve it.
Yes. And you got, and you're guided by a sort of an inner sense of right and wrong. Um, the first thing
they would know about the Enneagram test, I think is that there's no wrong answers on it. There's no
personality that's better or worse than another personality.
And so you're just learning about yourself. So when you take a test or read about the personality types,
you will only reveal what you, what kind of input you put into it. And only you can understand your
personality type in which one fits you. So if you take a test and it doesn't seem like you, the first thing
you should do is reassess your understanding of yourself because you just took the test. But the second
thing you should do is, is, um, look at yourself critically and say, well, maybe that is me because I really
didn't want to come out a one. But the more I read about what the one type was, it made more sense
that that's what I was, and that's what I am.
Right. And I mean, I knew when I read about the one, I absolutely, you know, you, you kind of have gone
back and forth between a couple of numbers, but I knew you were a one because you have such a solid
moral center and such a well defined, um, perspective of right and wrong. And you always try to do
what's right. And that is something that the, what five, I think is the thinker in the five, the thinker.
But the, but the five is the less practical. The five is more of just learning for learning's sake, investigating
for investigating sake, but they don't necessarily care if they, um, improve anything in the world with
that knowledge, they just want to know more and more and more. Yeah.
Right. And that is you, you do have that, that desire to learn. You're always, you know, enjoy school. And
you're always reading. You want to know a lot, but because you have this, this really strong drive
morally and ethically, that really, to me tells me that you're a one,
right. I like, I just watched a YouTube video about increasing the number of representatives in the house
of representatives. Most people don't sit around and think about that. But I want to think about how to
fix the problems in Washington in a different way than some other person, an idealogue might or
something you want to fix the, fix the system in some way that when other people look at it, they go,
what, what are you talking about? I don't understand that.
Right. Because, because when I read is that ones are like 1% of the population. So people don't really
understand where you're coming from most of the time, because there are so few of you out there.
Right. Right, right. And then there's the downside to being a one, which is the inner perfectionism, the
self criticism, the self negativity, wanting to be good. You, you basically want to be good all the time and
you've, and nobody's perfect. So you're your harshest, your own harshest critic. Um, but to get back to
the beginning of, of the Enneagram, what's different about the Enneagram from the Myers-Briggs for
instance, is Myers-Briggs, doesn't give you any sort of behavior that stems from the way you see the
world Myers-Briggs talks about the way that you see the world, are you introverted or extroverted? Are
you sensing or intuitive? Are you a thinker or a feeler? Are you, um, about, um, are you a judger or a
perceiver? Well, even when you line those things up, it really doesn't tell you anything about your, the
source of your personality. The Enneagram will tell you whether you're guided by your gut, your head or
your, or your heart. And usually that will make some sense. Right.
Right. So ones are guided by their gut, right?
Yeah. Which is counter, which is counterintuitive also because you're, you're, you're the angriest type
also, but it's just anger, anger on the inside,
Righteous anger, though.
Yeah. But all three gut types and a nine is also a gut type, which is they have, uh, they try to hold it in
Yes. Yes. I don't want anyone to see,
and they don't want anybody to be angry at each other.
Oh, I hate it. I hate it when, when it, yeah. Yeah. That's true.
But I think, I think there's, there's a couple of resources for the Enneagram that are the basic, I think the
basic place to start, which would be to find some type of free test online. I wouldn't advise starting out
investing money in this. Yeah.
Right now I've just done the free test and Hey, it worked for me. I definitely believe that I'm a nine.
There are places you can find tests to pay for, but you don't have to do that. You don't have to spend
any money to do this. Right. Then you can go into Enneagram institutes, website and read, um, Riso is
the writer of that, um, and you can read the, each a detailed description of each personality type. And
then, and then after that, I would say, if you really want to know more, find a book about it. And, and
like father Rohr's book or Riso's, book somebody book that, but get it from the library. You don't, you
know, you can check these books out, you don't need to buy these books.
There's my thrifty husband coming out. Absolutely. And I'll put links to all of this in the show notes. So
we'll put the website for the Enneagram Institute in the show notes. And some, we get some books that
he's read and I'll put those in the show notes too. And you can go to the show notes, just go to
So, and we'll have all this in the show notes, but let's just do like a really brief overview of the numbers
as you understand them. This is the one thing I love about Morgan is that, um, he can read a book or
two, and he was really able to absorb the knowledge and synthesize the knowledge. He's not an expert.
He's not trained in this, want to disclose that, but he really does understand it very well in a way that I
can't really understand it or explain it. I know one, because he's the one and I know nine because I'm a
nine, and I know a little bit about the other ones, but let's, let's just go through the numbers. You know,
we've talked about one. What do you, what do you understand?
Two is the helper type. They're happy when they're helping other people they're unhappy when they're
not able to help. They want, they want a kind of stability. Also similar to the nine. I think the difference is
their stability is built on relationships, not built on what's on the inside.
Okay. So it's more outward
more outwardly directed. So they they're there. When they see a situation, uh, somebody is having a
problem. They want to go help that other person out of the situation. Right. So they're very
interpersonal type. They will get frustrated when they can't help. They'll get frustrated when they're not
Right. They, they definitely, want to be acknowledged.
right. So yes. In some, in some way. Yeah. They're, they're sort of needy in that way. Um, but that's
It's okay. You know, there's healthy parts of every number and then there's what they call disintegrated,
right. When you disintegrate.
Yeah. So, I mean to go back again, just start over again for just a second. All of the types slide between
types. In other words, if you're a one who is acting more healthy, behaves more like a seven a, which is
the type of person that's more of the, the, um, free spirited person,
but then when they're right. But then when they're unhealthy, they moved to a
so four, which is the creative type, but also kind of the depressed, woe is me type. Right. So,
so a two in health will move to
a two in health home actually moved to four. Okay.
And we'll talk about four in just a minute,
which is, which is again, the creative type, but a two, when they're unhealthy, we'll move to eight.
They'll get, which is the commander type, the, the, uh, the don't control me type of a person. Right. Um,
so yeah, so that's, that's two, three is the achiever. They're, they're very much, uh, based on their
personality and when everybody else thinks of them, what, they're the rock? They're the rock stars of, of
life. They're the, the cheerleaders, the quarterbacks, the politicians, you know, in general, I mean, ones
can be politicians too, but nines can be politicians too, but in general, threes are the achievers who want
to, who, who find their value in other people. Right. Um, and then the achievements they can, can
Fours are the creative types. So these are the type of people who, um, an example for them as they're
the type of people who wear clothes to be different. And they want you to think that they, that they
didn't spend any time figuring out what clothes to put on, but really they took a lot of time because they
wanted to be totally different from everybody else. Do you want to be unique? Yeah. Um, but that, but
they're also kind of a depressive type, um, because they're kind of not, not happy a lot, you know?
Right. So a lot of creatives tend to be fours, right?
Yeah. And, and oddly, um, father Thomas Mertin, who was a monk who wrote a lot of serious, um,
books about God and theology, he was a four. But when, you know, once you learn about the types you
go, yeah. That sounds right. Because he very much was an emotional person. So then the fives are the
investigator type. They're the scientists, the scholars, the, the ones who want researchers, the ones who
want to know more for knowing more sake, but they're, you know, I know musicians who were fives
also. Um, um,
and they probably lean into that research area, like really understanding music, musicology and things
Yeah. And they, and they also, they also worry about their competence. So they want to get better and
better. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, the sixes or the loyalists, they're, they're driven by fear. Uh, but they're
also the kind of people that want to gather around with more people and achieve things together,
like a group, right.
And they also want to know kind of like the three, they want to know everybody else's opinion. They
have, if the, if the one is driven from some kind of internal compass, the sixes are driven from trying to
ask other people what they should do
They're pollsters, in a way. And they're, they're a very large part of the population. I think, I think I read
like 28 to 30% of the population are six. Yeah.
Some people think even half, and there's two types of sixes, which we won't go into that Right this
second. But, so there is almost like two types within a tire. So you could say there's, you know, 25 and
25 or something, or 20 abd 20, something like that, then there's the S the sevens, that's the Peter pan
type. The, the, the fun, the have fun types. There's they want to be spontaneous. They want to have fun.
And they're the fear of missing out type. They don't want to miss out on any, they don't wanna miss out
on anything. Um, but that also means they make a lot of plans. Um,
it's counterintuitive for a fun, loving type to be a planner. Right. But they want to fill up their life.
Right. And I know other pastors who are sevens, uh, and, you know, so if, again, it doesn't necessarily
have anything to do with what job you do. Um, that, that, that's what, you know, Myers Briggs does.
This is about your personality type within lots of different periods. Um, then there's the eights, the
eights, are the very definite commander type leader type of person. Um, they, they're the people that,
you know, that have very strong opinions and, you know those opinions and they come in and they bark
at everybody. Um, and let them know, um, they don't, they don't want to be controlled. Uh, they, and
then they also don't necessarily follow through, they want you to do it, but they don't necessarily want
to do it.
Yeah. And that's the people like that. I think the eight, for some reason is the hardest for me to wrap my
head around, because I think when you start looking into their, um, healthy side and their disintegrated
side, I don't know. It's just, it's, for some reason, the eights are, are difficult for me.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, when an eight is at their strongest, they're protecting the weak.
Uh, so, um, lots of politicians, you know, or are there, they're kind of righteously angry as well, but
they're rather than use their mind or rationality to fix it. They, they're more likely to use their fists, you
know, they're, they're, they're, they're, you know, or some type of weapons of words, but they, they are
very definite about what they believe and they, you know, don't want anybody to control them. Uh, and
they don't want anybody to control other people a lot of times too. And that they'll, they'll help the
weak. I mean, that's, they see themselves as strong, so they want to help the weak. Yeah. So when
they're at their strong, when they're at their strongest, you know, and then there's the nine,
there's the nine.
and the nines are the nines or the every type can be sum of all the types. But the nones, for some
reason are more of a blank slate than all the other types. And they don't want anybody to be upset.
They don't want to be any, anybody to be fighting. They want peace. I think,
yeah. We're driven by particularly internal peace. No, we don't want to anything to rock the boat,
but to say that they're driven is maybe an exaggeration, cause they're not terribly, right?
No, that's no, I don't mean driven in terms of like achievement, I just meant. Um,
but they need to look, they need, they need some plans and motivations when they're healthy, they
moved towards having more plans
and achieving things. Right. Cause they move, we moved at threes and I absolutely can see that in my
life when I've been, um, more integrated and healthy. I definitely, you know, enjoy achieving things. But
when I'm disintegrated, I go in the bed and pull the covers up over my head. And I don't want to think
about anything at all.
So, but I mean, there's, there are great things to a nine, so yeah. That's where I'm trying to go.
Yeah. I think the, I think the next thing that to know is that with each of those personality types, we
alluded to this earlier is that there are, there are three, three types are driven by their head. Three types
are driven by their heart and three types are driven by their mind.
Okay. So name those.
So the ones that are driven by their gut, um, are the eight, nine and one. Okay. Those are the gut types.
That means you're, you're, you're more based on instinct and for the ones that's kind of
counterintuitive, it's obvious for the eights and it's not, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the
nones, but it really does. Cause they're all about, they're almost physical feelings. The two threes and
fours are the heart types and they're driven by more like emotional feelings. Um, and I think that really
has to do with relational feelings.
You know, the, the twos want to be in relationships to help, the threes want to be in relationships to, to
lead, a three can be anything they need to be to other people. Right. Um, and then a four is more along
the lines of their lack of relationships or needing somebody to come in and save them from themselves.
Yeah. So they're needy in that. Right.
Because they're the one to be different people. Okay. All right.
And then the, then five, six and seven. Those are counterintuitively again, the head types, because not
for a five, that's more obvious with the logic that they use for things, but for the six, the relational
nature of that. But there, and the fact that they're driven by fear, they try to fix their fear with their
Yes. And the same way that one's try to fix their anger with their, you know, their anger is what they
have. They really need to fix it with their head. It's kind of counterintuitive for both. But then the sevens
also have that fear of missing out is actually a kind of anxiety. So they use their head to try to fix that.
That's when they go and make plans for things and try to schedule out their fun and those kinds of
things. So if you have, if you are one of these types, then you also kind of have this broader type within
that, that you, that you fall into head, gut or heart. Okay.
Okay. All right. Right. Kind of groupings of the numbers that have been, so that, that gives similarities to
some of the numbers.
I've heard people call that subtypes, but that's really, um, confusing when they say that. Because when
you think of a subtype, you think of a type within a one, right. And there are, there are sub-types within
a one it's based on your integration or disintegration.
Right. Right. And as you, if you, if you go and study this further, you'll find out that the, each type also
has a wing. So, you know, it can get a little bit more complicated and we're not going to totally go into
all of that right now. But
I don't, I don't think you have to understand the wings at the beginning. Cause I I'm still not sure how
helpful that is to understand the test that I took said that I have a nine wing and that could be,
yeah, I think you do. I think you do my mine a one wing, but you don't believe that you think I'm an eight
wing, but now I think I'm a one wing because I do underlying all of that. I do have the sense of right and
wrong. And you know, that's definitely what attracted me to you in the beginning was that you were
such a good person and you always wanted to do, you know, what was right. And you know, you're very
thoughtful about, about everything. So yeah. So, but anything else we need to talk about?
I think the other basic, basic thing that, again, we've alluded to this as the integration and disintegration.
So within each type you can move kind of forwards and backwards on a, again, a scale that nobody else
can determine, but you, I mean, you can see it from the outside sort of that you can determine how you
are relating to other people and yourself, on the inside. And that's gonna, if you look at the, at the way
the charts laid out, you can see the type that you move towards. So again, to use my type to become
more spontaneous would make me more healthy to not be so rigid. Right.
And you're trying to do that. Right.
But to, but to become what woe is me, self-pitying would be disintegrating. Right. And so, but for the
most part, you still still live within the middle of that, of your type. Correct. You know, you want to live
above the average part. Um, and for the one that, that means becoming more accepting and, um, you
know, the, one of the Enneagram institutes updates they sent, they send, uh, a daily update. Uh, their
thought for the day was expand your well, be, be present in your body, expand your heart and, um, and
be accepting in your mind of other people.
yeah. Mine was kind of similar to that, except mine was at the end of that. It was to kind of like trust and
know your own value. So yeah, that, that would be good
because your, your Enneagram Institute update always tells you to do things to be assertive. And mine
always tells me not to be,
be more assertive. All right. Well, that is an overview of the Enneagram. You can go again to the
Enneagram Institute dot something. I'll put it in the show notes. I'm not sure if it's org or.
Just Google the Enneagram Institute.
And then there's this, it's like the second button down on the page to give you the personality types.
Right. And so you can take, I think they have a free test. You can, no, they do not have a free test, like
$10. Okay. All right. So go somewhere else, take the test. And then, but then go back to the enneagram
Institute and read about it because it's, the each type is very well described and it talks about your
healthy side and your, you know, as you, as you move down the scale from healthy to unhealthy, and
you can kind of see maybe where you are and to move forward into the healthiest part of your, your,
Yeah. So about the tests. I mean, there's the free ones. You can take the free one and, you know, get a
good response, but she could also pay $10 and get a professional one done, I think.
Right, that's pretty cheap.
And I think it's the most important thing about that test is that it fits with what you feel like the correct
personality type is. The test is not one determines your personality type. It's your response to that test
and what you feel is right. The tests may come back with a response that doesn't really match who you
really are. So it'd be, be careful with,
Right. Cause some of the tests give you three top answers.
Yeah. And that's really confusing. Um, you know, if you get that, if you do that test, I'd just recommend
looking at another test to make sure that that's because it'll, it'll give you top three answers and they
might be really close to one another and that can get confusing. So try to take a test that just picks the
top one for you.
Right. And I know the one that I took just picked one, I mean, it said Nine wing 1, and that was it. And I'll
star that in the show notes. Cause I I've already put those in the, that link in the show notes so that
you'll know. But you know, as we begin to wrap it up, you know, I know that the Enneagram has taught
me a lot about me and you know, when you know yourself, then you can really understand other people
better as well. So, and it's helped me to understand you better. And so why don't you just share a little
bit about how it's helped you?
Well, I think it's, I think it's helped me to understand who I am and who, where my motivations come
from and how I can grow. Also to realize that other people, uh, need to be accepted because of the, of,
of their personality types, that there aren't any bad personality types on there. And if you can
understand where they're coming from, then you have an easier time with other people accepting them
for who they are.
Right. Absolutely. But it's, it's, it's not to put words in your mouth, but it's, you know, you've always kind
of had this anger underneath the surface, which is what a one is. And so how has it helped you to
understand that part of your personality,
Right. A resentment is what, uh, Riso calls calls that, but it's a kind of kind of anger. Yeah. It's just helped
me to see that that's the general kind of motivation for, for who I am. So I'm not getting mad at people
so much as um Mmm. It's just the genuine motivating force from the way that I get disappointed with
when things aren't perfect in the world. And so then, then when I feel angry, I can understand that, that
everybody gets angry, but not everybody quite gets angry the same way that I do. And that's, and, and
that's okay. Um, and then I can deal constructively with that anger and move away from it.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's what the Enneagram does at its very core. It helps you to see
yourself, your strengths and it's and, and how you can grow. And so that's why I love it. And um, I hope
that this podcast episode has been beneficial for you and that if you haven't looked at the Enneagram
that you'll take a minute to see if it's something you might be interested in, too, and take that test and
email me back at [email protected] And let me know what your type is. I just love talking to
people about who they are and, and what they know about themselves and how they are growing into
being the healthiest version of themselves that they can be. So thanks so much for listening. I'll see you
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